29+ and full suspension - BRAAP

Yes, correct saddle height. I'm a freak.

A few days ago I posted a quick picture of the bike I'm calling "BRAAP". I'll let you decide if that's an acronym, and if so, what it stands for (Big Rowdy Alces Alces Proletarian?) But I can say that taken as a whole, it stands for super, super fun. And yes, full custom full suspension frames are now officially available (priced the same as the Ventana/WW configuration for now at $2500 w/shock), drop me a line for details.

First, the basics. Here's the bike:

BRAAP!

The executive summary here: modern XC geometry, 100mm travel, lots of standover, pretty darn short stays, pretty darn low BB. Designed to just *barely* allow the use of a Thomson dropper post with the saddle clamped at full ~28 degree downward tilt.

I wanted a long-day go-anywhere bike that would be fun for exploring rough/undeveloped trails, as well as snappy and responsive enough to be fun on a lunch ride. It's built super beefy (all Supertherm all the time!) because 1) I wanted to be able to loan it out to buddies/customers without worrying about how big they were, and 2) I crash. Sometimes hard. There's also the fact that honestly, being a weight weenie about a 3" tire bike when you're approaching 40 and have 2 small kids is ridiculous. If I wanted to be faster I'd drink less beer and ride more. The complete bike weighs about 28 pounds with fairly nice but not crazy parts.

And, I'll be blunt: I got what I was going for. And then some (with some inevitable tradeoffs, of course). This is my favorite full suspension bike ever, and I must have owned 30 or so by now.

Loads of Chupacabra clearance

I'll do another post next week for those folks who are interested about the nitty-gritty of the swingarm and seatstays. Suffice to say for now that they're a mixture of straight-gauge 4130 and 304 stainless (for bearing fittings) along with a LOT of probably unnecessary work to attach everything to the dropouts (I'll use rockers next time and for customer bikes - much simpler/lighter/cleaner).

So, how does it ride?

In a word, it's like having a short-travel DH bike on the downhill, and a really capable (albeit not all that light) XC bike on the climbs. It has insane gobs of traction in even the worst off camber gravel type situations. It wheelies and manuals and pops around really nicely (though not as nicely as Stupidmobile, since that bike has a wheelbase that's almost 3" shorter!) It's extremely capable on steep terrain going up or down - no wander on slow techy climbs, tons of confidence on steep roll-ins and rough fast descents.

There are tradeoffs, of course:
-3" tires are pretty slow going uphill unless the terrain is really rough. You won't be getting any Strava PRs on your local dirt road climb on this bike.
-I wanted a very low bb, because I love how low bb bikes ride. In technical stuff when pedaling, pedal strikes can be pretty frequent (and potentially dangerous if you're going fast!)
-They are intact so far, but the bike demands to be ridden really fast on rough gnar, and I'm guessing I'll eventually shred my probably too-light Chupacabra tires.
-Chupacabras (and 100mm travel) aren't great for going off big drops or hitting big jumps at the bike park. To be fair, though, this bike was never intended to be a full-on DH sled and doesn't have the travel or geometry to be ridden that way.

Curved bridge next time!

Some people will also find the combination of larger tires and suspension to be just too much damping out of trail feedback - the ride can feel "numb" on smoother sections of trail and while you might be going really fast - in some cases it actually doesn't feel very fun because the bike is doing so much of the work. That's a line that everyone has to find for themselves, though, and on the trails I tend to like best (rough XC) this bike is perfect.

I'm pretty excited about this bike, not just because it's a blast to ride, but also because I can now do really fun and weird stuff with full suspension bikes (FS fatbike? FS 29er with 400mm chainstays? Super low/high/long/short/fat/whatever? All doable) and let the geek flag fly. Not everyone is going to prefer 29+ (or even fit on it) but that's the nice thing here - I can do 27.5+, 26+, 24" fatbike, 20", mixed wheel sizes... anything.

I'm not about to stop riding Stupidmobile (currently set up as a rigid singlespeed with, natch, a Chupacabra on the front) since Park City has a metric ton of trails that are way too smooth for any form of suspension at all. But when I wander into the shop, this is the bike I usually grab.

Give me a brake!

...says Bean. Good thing you can adjust the reach like crazy on old plastic SRAM 5.0 brake levers!

Frankenbike started out as Dora the Explorer from Walmart by way of garage sale. Yes, that's a Thomson post.

This was the old system:

Happy Weekend...

... says Stupidmobile 2: Non-Electric Boogaloo.

Details and more photos to come, but some numbers to clue you in: 29x3, 100mm, 42.5cm, 69 degrees, 30.9, goes to 11.

#braaap

Brian's frame class bike - complete!

I did nothing but stand by and advise/run my mouth. Brian built this sucker from the ground up about a month ago - 150mm travel 27.5 hardtail with slack angles, super short stays, and all the modern bells and whistles. Nice work!

Edit: frame class details here. A couple spots still open for fall this year!

Prepare to be shredded, Marquette

3" tires? 425mm chainstays?

There are some caveats, but man this thing is going to be fun when it's done! And no, that swingarm won't be attached to this frame. I just bolted it up to play around and give it a little night ride test.

2001 LX cranks are still awesome. Cable guides? Who needs cable guides?

Tom's Gravel Grinder: Done

Curvy bridge is pretty much mandatory with those stays

I cleaned up a little bit. Or maybe I just pushed all the random junk to the sides...

Tapered head tubes are neat, and not as much of a pain to miter to as I had feared.

If I ran the circus: Plus Bikes, Chainline, and Short Chainstays

As the world of mountain bikes gets more and more diverse, things get... more interesting for a framebuilder. I've got a big drawer of obsolete tools and parts that are only 5 years old (need a jig to install an ISCG mount or direct mount front derailleur, anyone? 150x12 through axle dummy? 1 1/8" head tube stock? Didn't think so...) and I'm constantly getting presented with odd new problems to solve.

But hey, interesting times. And all the options out there are just simply awesome for riders. The bad old days of 71/73 and 2.1" tires are long gone (though you can still have that if you want it!)

Because I build a decent number of plus size (ie, ~3" tire) bikes lately, and I have a lot of picky customers who don't want just a big tire slammed into really long chainstays to make it all work, here's the plus-bike wish list, as brought to you by someone who builds them and rides them too.

First off, if you're someone who fits nicely on a 29er, consider that 29+ is really 30.5" diameter, give or take a few mm. If you're close to toe overlap on your 29er, or you really feel like the bike is close to too long/unwieldy - then you should do 27.5+ (about 29" diameter), not 29+. Likewise if you're pretty small, 26+ exists and is a great option (it's basically the same diameter as 27.5, but wider tires). Don't just decide you want fatter tires and automatically upsize your wheels at the same time - that might not be appropriate for you and what you want to do.

The most important thing to do for these bikes (regardless of wheel diameter): wider than normal chainline. Let's assume you won't run a front derailleur. That's a pretty safe assumption these days with 1x giving up to 4.4x1 overdrive - enough for anything that will mostly be ridden on a trail for 95% of riders.

The battle, as always, is fitting the chainstays, tire, and chainring all into the same small area near the BB shell. A quick look at any mountain bike will show you why this is trouble. Every extra millimeter we can squeeze out is worth it's weight in gold, so throw the usual ~50mm chainline out the window.

How? Lots of ways, in order of max tire clearance/short chainstay awesomeness:
1. Boost (ie 148mm hub spacing, ~52mm chainline)! It only gets us 2mm of extra space, but that's not a bad thing. If you do nothing else, you can do a boost rear end/crank.
2. Run your chainring on the outboard position of a triple crank (~56mm chainline) and offset rear dropouts/hub to match. Alternately run a direct-mount chainring flipped over (ala Raceface Cinch) or BB30 ring on GXP crank (SRAM). This helps a ton and also has the sidebenefit of a mostly dishless rear wheel.
3. Run an 83mm BB (~55mm chainline) and matching cranks. There are lots of great options out there now though finding 175mm cranks in XC-ish configuration can be challenging. Offset rear wheel to match. Or build around a 150/157mm through axle rear hub.
4. Run an 83mm BB and offset ring (~60mm chainline). Offset rear end 10mm or so to match or run a 170/177mm fatbike rear end (ala Kevin's low-Q fatbike). My favorite option, this actually gives enough room to run a 4" fatbike tire if you so desire and plenty of space for short, short chainstays with loads of tire clearance.
5. Run a 100mm BB and 170mm rear end. If you're going for a fatbike with plus-tire/summer setup, this is the next step up. Some folks won't like the Q factor, though.

I get a lot of pushback on all of these ideas from people because it seems some folks are really stuck in the "bike should be symmetrical" mindset. Here's the thing: your bike is already not symmetrical. You have a drivetrain on one side, brakes on the other (assuming disc brakes). Your wheels have the spokes coming out of the flanges at dramatically different angles. In some cases your rims are drilled offset to one side...etc. My goal is to make the bike that rides the best for you - and in most cases, having the rear end symmetrical is going to detract from doing that with many of the plus sized tires that are out there. Yes, you'll have to have a dedicated rear wheel for your plus bike that you won't be able to swap around with your other bikes without redishing it. C'est la vie. Wheels are cheap (relatively speaking).

Q factor is another question. If you really want narrow Q, options get limited. But fatbikes have proven (for *most* people) that Q factor isn't as crucial as you might think. Adding 5mm to each side (ie using an 83mm shell instead of 73mm) isn't even noticeable to most riders. You might be the exception, of course, but there's no reason to think you need to worry about it unless you have a preexisting knee problem and you know the Q factor is going to be trouble.

So bottom line: if you want a semi-fat/plus bike, consider letting me go a little nuts to make it awesome. It's going to be weird, yes. But much more fun than a cookie-cutter setup with 45cm chainstays (unless 45cm chainstays is what you need, of course!)

I love my job...

Backyard dual slalom

Gal's FR 29er

Sorry, I meant "enduro"

MUNI!

Another ~400 or so reasons to come visit and build a frame...

What you've all been waiting for... 2015 build kits: Smart Money

Hey, 2015 is... more than half over. And I finally got around to doing a new set of build kits.

Here's this year's "Smart" money kit. Notes: no pedals or saddle, shipping not included. GX cranks may be unappealing to some, but you're better off spending that money elsewhere IMO. Front derailleurs are still dead.


Smart Money 2015:

$3600 geared

$3200 singlespeed

$4600 full squish

Replace that old-school rigid post with a Thomson dropper for an extra $200!

Frame	Waltworks Custom
Fork	Rockshox Reba
Headset	King
Stem	Thomson X4
Handlebar	Easton EC70
Shifters	X1 trigger
Front derailleur	None
Rear derailleur	X1
Bottom Bracket	w/cranks
Chain	X1
Cassette	X1 10-42
Crankset	SRAM GX w/32t ring and BB
Pedals	None
Cables/housing	Included w/shifter
Seatpost	Thomson Elite
Brakes	Shimano XT w/160mm rotors
Skewers	Included
Wheelset	ZTR Crest/Arch/Flow wheelset w/XD driver
RimStrips	Included
Tubes	None, tubeless!
Tires	Bontrager XR team series TLR (I like the XR2 for all-around fun)
Grips/tape	Ritchey WCS

Mess with Texas...

Or just pose your bike in front of some giant accordion type structure...

Thanks to Jon for the picture!  Geometry and geekout here.

Edit: Got a couple folks asking about the sweet Nox wheels. Yes, I sell them. Yes, you can get custom colored decals (costs a few extra bucks). Rims alone are $375 each in any model/size/width. Whole wheels obviously will vary tremendously, drop me a line if you need a price quote.

Weekly random shop photos

Word on the street is I might have an actual website at some point soon...

In the meantime, I'm still making stuff out of metal.

Getting close

All mitered

Sideways Solidbikes 30.9 plug

Soon you'll be covered up by the downtube...

Greg finishes up...

Actually, due to a little snafu with a cut-too-short seatstay bridge, it'll be a few more shop hours. But we're close!

Monday photos from Felix

Speedplay lives!

Clean. A little _too_ clean.

Fattie on dirt? Why not!

A couple from Carey

Finally built up and dirty (a little dirty, anyway) after the epic powdercoat delays of the spring.

Geometry for the bored and/or nerdy here.

 

The student has become the master...

Brian under the hood.

135mm Rohloff with 29+ or 26x3.8?

Yes, it's doable. It requires some serious curves, though, if you want s-bends and some decent heel clearance.

Mark plans some very comfy fat-tire touring on rough dirt roads wherever he decides to wander - with plenty of anything cages, bottles (you can mount extra bottles on the seatstays, even!) and fenders. PF30 EBB? Jones fork on the front is going to be the icing on the only-one-like-it cake. 

Yowza!

Fatbikes are fun on dirt too

Especially at night. Here's Felix demonstrating at Curt Gowdy on his 83mm shell low-q fatbike in the daytime:

Now, I'm not convinced that fatbikes are a great choice for racing on dry trails like Felix is doing here unless things get *real* weird terrain-wise, but what I will say is that they are *awesome* for night riding. At night, you can still see big obstacles and the general direction/trend of the trail. What you can't see are the subtleties and the small obstacles - which a fatbike will happily ignore. I'm about 10% slower on my fatbike in the daylight going uphill, maybe 5% slower going downhill. At night, the uphill doesn't change much, but the fatbike is at least 10% faster - and 100% more fun (ie, I can let it rip and not be afraid I'll die because I didn't see a patch of sand).

Give it a whirl, folks! No reason to leave that fatbike hanging all summer, even if you've got other bikes to ride.

Pressfi-what?!?

Don't freak out, it's just so Mark can use the neat Niner EBB that fits the PF30 shell (we needed 83mm width, too, which made a normal EBB too much of a pain).

Sarah's new bike getting packed up in the background.

Rohloff, 29+/26x4, loads of mounts for everything imaginable... should be fun!

Loads of room.

WW vs AK

Alaska. I think the Kalashnikov would win if that was the AK I meant.

Thanks to Steven for the photos

Riser bar, upside down stem?

Oh, what the heck... one more

Sarah's (not my Sarah) new 29x4" bike. Featuring BB wrench counterweight and no shock bushings yet! It's friday...

No decals either? Walt's not even trying...

Pretty normal modern XC geometry, dropper post compatibility, and remote lockouts and adjustable travel out the wazoo. Sooner or later I gotta modernize my own stuff, my own FS bike looks pretty darn obsolete these days.

This thing would fit me pretty well if the seat tube and head tube were both 2" longer